Draw Your City with AR and AI

00:00:03: This episode is going to be in English.

00:00:06: There's probably that one spot in your city, maybe a street corner, an intersection or an abandoned building that has always bothered you because it feels ugly or even hostile to people.

00:00:16: And maybe you've had ideas about how to transform it.

00:00:19: Well, soon there might be an app that combines augmented reality and AI to do just that.

00:00:25: Take a picture, draw some simple sketches, and AI helps chance to draw sketches into a more polished visualisation, so you don't really need any skills, so even everyday citizens can participate in this.

00:00:38: Hi and welcome back to New Realities, the podcast by WonnieNein and XR Hub Bavaria.

00:00:43: In this show we explore new realities, project ideas, concepts and products, in virtual augmented and mixed reality or in short in extended reality.

00:00:51: My name is Wolfgang Kärle, I'm the editor-in-chief of Onee-Nine and in this episode I'm speaking with Roxy Young.

00:00:57: Roxy is a recent architecture graduate from Technical University of Munich with a focus on sustainable design and innovative technologies.

00:01:06: Together with fellow students she developed the project Draw Your City as part of her studies and this year in July it won the New Realities Competition by XR Hapevarier and Onee-Nine.

00:01:17: after the teaser that you just heard, you probably already have a sense of what it's about.

00:01:23: But if not, Roxy will explain it herself in just a moment.

00:01:26: Now, one quick note.

00:01:28: During our recording, the internet connection wasn't as stable as we'd hoped, and that affected the sound quality more than expected.

00:01:34: With a little AI help, we were able to clean it up quite a bit, but at times it may still sound as if you're speaking a little unclearly.

00:01:42: Well, that was the eye not us because of course our talking was perfect.

00:01:46: Sorry about that.

00:01:46: Of course, it's still absolutely worth listening to this conversation.

00:01:50: Oxy, welcome to the New Realities podcast.

00:01:53: Great to have you on our show.

00:01:55: Thank you so much for having me here.

00:01:59: Oxy, to start with, could you please introduce yourself briefly?

00:02:03: Who are you?

00:02:03: What do you do and how did you get into working with XR Technologies?

00:02:08: Yes.

00:02:09: I mean, first of all, thank you for having me here.

00:02:11: really first time on a podcast ever, super cool experience.

00:02:14: And my name is Roxy, I recently graduated in architecture from the Technical University of Munich.

00:02:21: And now I'm working as a Sustainability Consultant in Munich, and how XR came in.

00:02:26: And during my final semesters at the TU Munich, I was working with Professor Peitleisch at the Chair of Architecture Informatics.

00:02:36: And the studio encourages us to experiment freely with emerging technologies, such as XR and AI.

00:02:43: And that experience really changed how I think about technology, not just as a tool that you apply in the end, but also as a creative medium.

00:02:52: And you can use and design with from the very beginning.

00:02:55: And for my thesis, accessibility was central.

00:02:59: So instead of focusing on special hardware, we explored what could be done with everyday devices like a smartphone.

00:03:06: And that's how XR can in and AR to be exact.

00:03:11: And that is how the idea for Joyous City naturally brought on.

00:03:17: Yeah, that leads us to my next question, because this year you took part in our new Realities competition by XR Bavaria and won E-Nine and you and your team, but you were the one who pitched in the finals at the Festival der Zukunft in Munich in July and you won.

00:03:34: Congratulations again.

00:03:35: Thank

00:03:36: you

00:03:37: again.

00:03:37: And as you already said, the project that you were working on, that you presented was called Draw Your City a Student Project.

00:03:45: Before we dive into what's it about, maybe you can tell us a bit more how it came to be, what kind of the challenge that your professor gave you was and who your other team members were.

00:03:58: So a little making of, so to say.

00:04:01: Yes.

00:04:04: created last semester, no two months ago.

00:04:07: And then the semester topic was Turing Urban Futures.

00:04:10: And the starting point of us, the task was, I mean, was more about the transformation of department stores, because in many cities, for example, I mean, especially in Munich as well, the department stores are in this kind of in-between phase of searching for new concepts.

00:04:26: And our theme or our task was to think about a tool that could support its transformation, but not like it was not.

00:04:33: It doesn't only apply to department stores, it's true that we can also apply for urban planning.

00:04:41: My team and I immediately thought about citizen participation, because instead of the top-down decision-making process, which is usually the case, whether citizens can share their opinions directly with city planners.

00:04:58: And to us, our team were a small group of three people.

00:05:01: Each of us, I mean, we're all architecture students.

00:05:05: Each of us, we have our own strength and interests.

00:05:08: Like, Redier, for example, he was very good at programming.

00:05:12: And me and Joanne just took care of the creativity part and the functionality of the whole project.

00:05:20: It was an intense semester.

00:05:22: So the problem that you were working on was more participation in urban planning, but also the situation in many cities that there are old department stores that are just empty standing around and nobody really knows what to do with the buildings, the space.

00:05:41: So maybe you could give us more details now about how you wanted to tackle these challenges with Draw Your City.

00:05:51: I mean maybe one can also talk about the core problem in urban design this process because this is really a top-down process.

00:06:00: often it happens behind doors and citizens are not invited at all to I invite a very late or sometimes not invited at all and cannot actually shape the space they will be living in so which will lead to this frustration creates.

00:06:15: this creates a gap between the people between what they need and what is actually getting built And so we want to close this gap with with StroyoCity and to really empower citizens to draw their visions and directly into urban spaces and make their voices visible.

00:06:32: That's when that's where AR and AI came in with in StroyoCity.

00:06:40: I mean as I mentioned earlier accessibility was the key for our project and the idea of the app of StroyoCity is that citizens can take pictures.

00:06:51: In urban spaces, whatever they want to share their opinion on, like whatever is bothering them in a city, by simply pulling out their mobile device, smartphone, they can take a picture, draw some simple sketches, and entering the prompts and AI would take care of it.

00:07:10: And AI helps translate draw sketches into a more polished visualizations.

00:07:16: so you don't really need any skills, so even everyday citizens can participate in this.

00:07:21: And once the picture is done, and it will be turned into a clickable dot, and right on the street where the picture was generated, what would you imagine it to be?

00:07:30: And using AR, they can check, they can check their own design in real time, and also interact with design from the others.

00:07:41: So our hope gap, it can help bridge that.

00:07:45: build a bridge for citizens and planners and create a a short language somehow.

00:07:52: So just to I don't know maybe give a clear example.

00:07:56: I'm walking around Munich and I see and that the old How for for a car shut.

00:08:05: actually both of them at the cars plus staches are empty and the couple of at least looks nice.

00:08:11: the car shut also looks pretty run down.

00:08:14: Yeah right now.

00:08:16: so I could take out my phone use the draw your city app take a picture yes and then.

00:08:23: Draw into the picture with my finger on it and then do a prompt and say hey, you know take this part and I don't know make it a Beautiful Tuscany style back from the out of it or something like that.

00:08:38: Yes

00:08:39: You can do everything with it.

00:08:40: I mean, I see the chakras was also our focus point.

00:08:44: There's one such status and spin there since I don't notice on twenty when I move here and still haven't changed much.

00:08:50: and But yeah, that's basically it.

00:08:53: When you walk past it, you can just use the app, draw some lines.

00:08:56: Really, it doesn't have to be pretty because the prompts will really take care of it.

00:09:00: And if you're happy with your results, you can just upload this.

00:09:04: If not, you can regenerate.

00:09:07: Because based on your GPS data, the belt will be safe on location.

00:09:11: Yeah.

00:09:12: I mean, if many people are using the app, they can interact with a lot of variations.

00:09:19: So we hope to transform this abandoned place of Stachos into a live canvas of community imaginations.

00:09:27: So that sounds like a fun part, but turning a place into a canvas and people who are using this app can see the ideas of other people who also drew their visions of this place and then prompted it.

00:09:47: But that doesn't change anything in concrete, literally.

00:09:53: So did you have any ideas of how this process could then lead to tangible results?

00:10:00: I mean, we're aware that what the citizens drew there or what AI generated and not going to get built one-to-one.

00:10:07: and because as architecture students or soon to be architects understand that this is really impossible because even our plans don't get taken in the end.

00:10:16: So we also have this web-based tool for planners.

00:10:19: So it's actually not the rendered AI renderings that we collect from citizens.

00:10:25: It's just more for a visualization purpose and to really enhance participation.

00:10:31: But it's the problems that we want.

00:10:32: So this AI-based tool, sorry, the web-based tool, it will collect all the prompts and in the end it will turn into a so-called hit map.

00:10:41: so the planners can filter the prompts or the most trending prompts, filter them and then I mean at the same time they will see on the map where the citizen want changes like and what change do they want.

00:10:54: for example if you filter them by I don't know um greenery you will see which quarter of the city people want more trees and want more more changes.

00:11:06: So there's actually two parts of the JoyoCity tool.

00:11:09: This all sounds great.

00:11:11: And I know that during the pitch at the Festival der Zukunft, we could see a kind of a promo video.

00:11:18: We could see a real example, which was on Karstadt at Stachelse, if I remember correctly.

00:11:24: And you did, of course, a great pitch, but how much is still theory?

00:11:29: How much is maybe working prototype?

00:11:31: Or is it just a concept with a good presentation and a good pitch?

00:11:35: We actually have the app.

00:11:37: It is located on the mock-up from the faculty.

00:11:42: I mean, we have the functional app.

00:11:44: I mean, of course, it needs some sign-tuning.

00:11:46: For now, you can already draw on this and do the photo generation part.

00:11:52: The AR part also works for now.

00:11:57: And the website is also hosted locally on my computer for now.

00:12:04: But we had to say that, although the functions are there, it is still a prototype.

00:12:11: For example, the AI generation, image generation thing, we're using one from Tragedy BG Directly.

00:12:17: And the results are very, very wild still.

00:12:21: We don't have any, it really looks very a bit, how do you say?

00:12:27: Results were came up.

00:12:28: Exactly questionable.

00:12:30: Yeah.

00:12:30: I mean, it's not a finished app, yes.

00:12:32: But I think we have proven that the idea has a lot of potential.

00:12:36: It was the biggest challenge in building this, and also maybe the most fun part.

00:12:41: The most biggest challenge, I think, was to search for the idea, to find a curve idea of the semester.

00:12:50: I think that took us the longest.

00:12:54: In the programming part, actually, it was very fun.

00:12:58: We use Unity to build our tool.

00:13:03: I mean, because we're not studying computer science, so we just kind of did a bit of vibe coding, using AI really helped us a lot too.

00:13:13: So it was really a rewarding process.

00:13:16: In the beginning, we were really not still fit in programming, but in the end, we got a functional tool out of it.

00:13:22: that was really rewarding.

00:13:24: I think that was the song experience, I mean, it was very intense.

00:13:30: The whole semester, but... The results work it.

00:13:35: That sounds great.

00:13:36: Did you present the results to actual city planners?

00:13:42: And if so, what did they say?

00:13:45: On the day of our presentation, there were guest professors there and also guests on the city.

00:13:53: They tested the tool in the classroom, of course.

00:13:58: We didn't really go out to the city, but they tested it.

00:14:00: It also worked with the interior.

00:14:01: if you want to change something in the classroom itself.

00:14:06: I think they really had fun testing the tools and the feedback were really positive.

00:14:13: I think people liked the idea of making urban planning more playful and accessible.

00:14:20: I think we liked it.

00:14:22: What about user feedback from other users, like citizens?

00:14:27: Did they get to test it?

00:14:29: Not yet.

00:14:31: Maybe that's for the next step.

00:14:33: We haven't really tested out in the city yet, but now we hope to get to test it one day, because then we'll get really useful feedbacks, like real feedbacks, not just one from the academic settings.

00:14:47: But till then, we have to fix the AI image generation thing.

00:14:53: As I got it, you are now finished with university and maybe the other team members too, or I don't know, continuing their studies.

00:15:01: So, what are your further plans for the app?

00:15:05: Will you be pushing the development?

00:15:07: Will there be a live version of it?

00:15:10: Or what's the current situation now?

00:15:13: I hope to continue the project.

00:15:15: Because Dan Z, the team sort of dissolved.

00:15:19: Because one of the team members, I mean... I think it just usually was a unique project.

00:15:25: I mean, one person moved to US for further studies.

00:15:31: But me myself, I'm really, I hope I'm looking for like-minded people.

00:15:37: If I can find the right people, I'm really down to push it forward.

00:15:40: Because I think it's really a cool tool with dollar potential.

00:15:43: I mean, short-term, if I have found the right people, short-term would be just to refine a prototype.

00:15:51: making, fixing the UI design and making the app more intuitive and scalable.

00:15:58: And the term probably to test with multiplicities.

00:16:03: I heard us to the city art book, it's really, that they really like to try out new technologies in terms of city planning.

00:16:12: I think they could contact them.

00:16:15: And long term version vision, it would be turn this platform, I mean, would be turn dry fitting the platform.

00:16:22: where to use an input and professional signings can meet productively.

00:16:28: So it's not really in the app, you can download tomorrow right away, but I'm motivated to push it forward.

00:16:36: Sorry, I have to circle back.

00:16:37: I forgot to ask about one specific group that maybe gave you feedback because you are architectural students.

00:16:44: And I don't know how do you feel and how did, I don't know, maybe your professors, your teachers and other architectural students feel about random people from the streets who have no idea about architecture suddenly making proposals for how the city should look like, which is still right now the job of architects.

00:17:07: I mean, I think it's fun.

00:17:09: I mean, for me at least.

00:17:12: In order, I mean, for us, it's a building to get built.

00:17:14: We really need to draw complicated plans and you have to coordinate it with all other, um, fair planner.

00:17:21: Um, and it is, it is a really, really complicated process and it takes years, um, to finish.

00:17:28: So I think it is fun.

00:17:30: I mean, for sure, as a kid, everyone has drawn like a little, little drawing up what kind of house they will build later, or maybe just, uh, I don't know.

00:17:37: I don't know, have you?

00:17:38: When you were a kid?

00:17:40: Just take some random drawings and imagine what kind of housing I'm building grew up.

00:17:45: No, I think I was more into if I were an Egyptian pharaoh or what kind of temples would I build for myself?

00:17:52: I mean,

00:17:52: you're also building.

00:17:55: Can you tell us a bit about your current job now?

00:17:58: Are you still doing something with XR?

00:18:00: or maybe in your private life?

00:18:03: In my job right now, not directly.

00:18:06: but I worked in an architecture firm and I do see people sometimes see a colleague using those VR goggles just to see the rendering in Streetie looks very cool and myself personally I mean I see great potential in using XR and actually I'm gonna start my master's studies maybe next year so maybe I will.

00:18:29: I think yeah I think it's a good idea to continue with it because there's great potential.

00:18:34: for example I also want to see how Immersive Tools can help people understand climber risk, for example, as well as working sustainability.

00:18:44: And also, for example, of building performance, I think it's really cool to use, to visualize this.

00:18:51: But this could be the next master project.

00:18:55: Must have seen this for next year.

00:18:58: And personally, I had a PS for.

00:19:02: I really want to buy those VR glasses one day, but for now it's for extensive, so I'll skip.

00:19:08: But I think Joyous City is one of the many examples of how XR can bring more transparency and participation in complex topics.

00:19:19: Now, looking forward or maybe forwarding some of your experience, because what I really liked was when you told about how you created the M. a bit of unity here, a bit of vibe coding there.

00:19:34: And that sounds pretty accessible.

00:19:38: And you got a working prototype.

00:19:41: So would you say that not only in kind of the final product, the combination of XR and AI is a great thing, but also in building it that the barriers to actually create.

00:19:55: those digital tools is lower now than in the past.

00:19:58: Because I think many people still have the feeling that they have an idea, but it's super complicated to get it out on the street.

00:20:06: Yes, definitely.

00:20:07: Because we use not only chattypt, we also use Corsair to build the thing, build the app as well as the website.

00:20:16: I think it has really made it accessible for people with no prior knowledge like me, myself.

00:20:24: And it is really a rewarding process.

00:20:26: But for example, for our website and for our Unity app, I mean, it works well with AI.

00:20:35: You have to adjust a lot what kind of prompts you're giving in or telling AI what to do.

00:20:41: In the process, I also noticed that myself, I have really a lack of knowledge in terms of coding and programming.

00:20:47: And of course, Tati Piti can do it for me, but she really understands how.

00:20:55: the framework of the calls and to understand where's the next step.

00:21:02: I think that still needs the human knowledge and this is not something I alone can do.

00:21:08: So it helps to have someone on the team who knows how to do that.

00:21:10: All

00:21:13: right.

00:21:14: This brings me to my final question, which has nothing to do with code.

00:21:17: You can relax, but more about your personal thoughts.

00:21:22: Now, you came to Munich in twenty-twenty.

00:21:25: Did I get this right?

00:21:25: Yes, for studies.

00:21:28: So you know this quite well now.

00:21:32: Where would you draw?

00:21:34: the city entirely differently than it is now.

00:21:37: So where are the pain points?

00:21:38: We would say, well, here Munich really needs some improvement from my point of view.

00:21:42: And what could this be improvement?

00:21:44: Well, first of all, I think the S-Bahn and the U-Bahn structures.

00:21:48: Or I mean, I would extend U-Bahn to the fur out in the city so I can get in the city of Esther.

00:21:56: And also, I think I would draw more apartment buildings because the apartment market in Munich is really horisic.

00:22:07: it was bad five years ago and I think it's only gotten worse and I had really trouble or every friend of mine had to travel looking for an apartment or affordable apartment.

00:22:21: and I think this is also something I would ask Because you don't really get a choice.

00:22:27: You can't really choose where you live.

00:22:29: You just take what you get.

00:22:32: I mean, for example, I live very far from the city and there's been kind of a hassle going in and out every day.

00:22:40: But it's the only one I could get.

00:22:43: So definitely I would draw more.

00:22:47: A fuller apartment in Munich.

00:22:49: Yeah.

00:22:51: You?

00:22:52: That sounds... like the obvious answer.

00:22:55: Yeah, I would definitely join doing that.

00:22:58: And I think, you know, additionally, I would draw some more daring, modern architecture.

00:23:06: I think Munich tends to be pretty conservative.

00:23:09: And even if they're very prominent spots where something new is being built, and yet they have this, you know, competitions where there are many projects being turned in.

00:23:20: And usually in my part of view, they choose like the most boring one or the you know the most conservative one and I think well we could need some because we have beautiful old buildings and landmarks and I think we could really need apart from Olympia Stadion some really modern highlights in the city.

00:23:41: and also I would build higher to be honest like more skyscrapers and four apartments but also for other things because we don't have the city is very dense And so we don't have space, but we could go higher.

00:23:56: And for some reason, we don't want to.

00:23:58: But that's my personal opinion.

00:23:59: So I would draw modern skyscrapers, potentially.

00:24:02: That sounds like a great idea.

00:24:03: You can use our tool for it.

00:24:06: Yeah, I will definitely try.

00:24:08: Roxy, thank you so much.

00:24:10: I really, uh, fingers crossed that the project will continue because it's an amazing project, as our jury said, at the new reality's final.

00:24:18: So if someone's listening who, I don't know, wants to join the team, who's a city planner.

00:24:22: or venture capitalist.

00:24:24: Please reach out to us and we will forward it to the team and support this great project.

00:24:29: And if not, then good luck for your work and hopefully XR will take a part.

00:24:36: It will be a part of it.

00:24:37: Thank

00:24:37: you very much and thank you for having me here.

00:24:45: That was episode seventy three of the new Realities podcast by one in nine and example very if you enjoyed it.

00:24:51: Please rate, subscribe and recommend it.

00:24:53: We recorded this conversation at the end of August in twenty twenty five.

00:24:57: And now the credits.

00:24:58: One in nine.

00:24:59: That's the new home for future optimists who want to make the world a better place with new ideas and technologies.

00:25:04: Beside this podcast, one in nine includes an online magazine, a community platform and events.

00:25:09: You can find all the information at one in nine dot community.

00:25:13: XR Bavaria was founded to advance the XR community in Bavaria to support the development and distribution of XR applications and to increase the visibility of Bavaria as a premium XR location.

00:25:23: Learn more at xr-bavaria.de.

00:25:26: This podcast is made possible through the support of the Bavarian State Ministry for Digital Affairs.

00:25:31: Many thanks for that and here you next time.